Greece is facing collapse of their government. All of their entitlement programs and social promises can not be funded by current revenues. Ponzi Scheme? Now they want to cut benefits to citizens and the riots begin? Where do the people think this money will come from? It is not there. The Greek citizens were sold a bad bill of sale on entitlements. The country can not support them.

I think the U.S. is headed down that same path.

(05-05-2010 10:24 AM)klake87 Wrote:  Greece is facing collapse of their government. All of their entitlement programs and social promises can not be funded by current revenues. Ponzi Scheme? Now they want to cut benefits to citizens and the riots begin? Where do the people think this money will come from? It is not there. The Greek citizens were sold a bad bill of sale on entitlements. The country can not support them.

I think the U.S. is headed down that same path.

I could not agree with you more. This is a case study of a nanny state unable to be a nanny anymore. From birth, Greece's citizens were indoctrinated with the concept that government is your surrogate parent and will take care of all of your problems. Now that it is bankrupt, look at what is happening. Its citizens are rioting out of control and people have died in the riots. This has occurred in all European socialist states (except the former communist bloc). These governments have created for lack of a better term generations of little children reliant on the mommy socialist state. When the gravy train runs out, their worldview is shattered and they lash out the only way they can with violence and despair. The situation in Greece is similar to the ghetto culture in America. Instead of look for a job or try to improve yourself, you become violent and blame others for your problems. This is starting to happen in America and I hope it is stopped or we as a nation will suffer the same fate.

So it's because it's a socialist country and not because it's just a failed state?

All European socialist states Kevin? Most would consider Sweden, Norway, etc.. to be among the best places in the world to live.

Socialist Canada had no tax payer bailouts of financial companies.. and yet American's capitalistic country crashed into a recession and cost us hundreds of billions of dollars. What gives Kevin????? Canadians have been babied with good cheap health care their entire lives, force fed government programs by their nanny state since birth and yet they seem to doing just fine. It makes no sense, how are those lazy Canucks doing so well as America struggles?

I'm not saying socialism is good, but if you're suggesting that because these select few countries failed after decades of success, means that socialism is the problem, you're just an idiot.

No entitlements are a problem. Deficit spending and national debt are a problem. To get elected, policitians will say and do anything. Greeks, Spaniards and even U.S. Citizens fall for this. There is not an unlimited supply of money.

Greece will fall, taking Spain, Portugal and possibly even Germany with them. This will effect the U.S. and eventually our debt with other external influences will cause even bigger problems here.

(05-05-2010 12:21 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  So it's because it's a socialist country and not because it's just a failed state?

All European socialist states Kevin? Most would consider Sweden, Norway, etc.. to be among the best places in the world to live.

Socialist Canada had no tax payer bailouts of financial companies.. and yet American's capitalistic country crashed into a recession and cost us hundreds of billions of dollars. What gives Kevin????? Canadians have been babied with good cheap health care their entire lives, force fed government programs by their nanny state since birth and yet they seem to doing just fine. It makes no sense, how are those lazy Canucks doing so well as America struggles?

I'm not saying socialism is good, but if you're suggesting that because these select few countries failed after decades of success, means that socialism is the problem, you're just an idiot.

Just to set the record straight, the Panhellenic Socialist Movement is the current party in power in Greece and has been for 24 of the last 30 years. Greece's current prime minister Geórgios Papandréou is also the current President of the Socialist International. I would say that it’s a failed socialist state.

Secondly, Sweden and Norway are not the best places in the world to live. The populations of both countries have been declining for years and anyone with any ambition leaves those countries because their taxes are so high (the rock band ABBA). Also, if those countries are so great name me one major contribution they have made to western civilization.

Next, my favorite topic Canada. Canada may not have bailed out its financial institutions but it has a history of heavily subsidizing Canadian businesses and has helped float the failed Nortel Networks for years. Also, its health care system really sucks! See link below.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/20...22956.html

Last but not least, Canadians are the least intellectually sophisticated people that I have ever met. I have met third world drug abusers who demonstrate greater intellectual capacity than the average Canadian.

One other point, I do not resort to name calling to try to get my point across. Use your NIU education and formulate some rational arguments.

I didn't disagree that it's a socialized state. I was suggesting that it failing because it's a socialized state is a reach at best.

Because you met a few people in Canada that weren't intellectually sophisticated that makes that the norm? You could drive to Southern Illinois or the heart of Alabama and talk to a few hillbilly's and think that all American's are morons by that logic.

Kevin the fact is, I do not respect you or your opinion in any way, so I have no interest in not calling you an idiot, because that's exactly what I believe you to be.

You are living under a rock if you don't think people find Sweden and Norway great places to live. The populations of nearly all industrialized nations has been in decline, America's would be too if not for those illegal immigrants everyone likes to ***** and moan about.

You can find many lists (unbiased) that have Sweden near the tops in the world in almost every category of quality of life. Just as you could Norway. It's obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden#Inte...l_rankings

The fact you suggested Sweden and Norway have not contributed anything major to Western Civilzation makes it clear you have no clue, and is the reason why I have no problem calling you an idiot. It's one of the things Sweden is most known for.. inventions and technological advancements. You will be embarrassed you said this when you actually take the time and look up Sweden and Norway, and do some research, and find out you were not talking about Sudan, but rather one of the most technologically advanced countries in the world, that is known for doing exactly what you said they don't.

You accuse me of not making a rational argument, but saying things that are patently untrue without name calling does not make your argument rational, just simple.

84,

Then why is Greece about to fail? Not enough money to meet current obligations? Commitment to too many entitlement programs as a nanny state(Socialist)?

Klake.. my point was many other countries are failing and have failed throughout history. America is struggling right now too. His pointing at socialism as the cause of the problems, and not a terribly run government is ridiculous. Any form of government will fail when run poorly. I was pointing out there are plenty of successful socialist countries.

If you are going to make a pathetically simple argument that because one or two socialist countries are failing, socialism doesn't work, is no different than pointing out a capitalist country that failed and saying capitalism doesn't work. It's stupid. Kevin is not bright and his argument that Sweden & Norway are not good places to live or that Sweden has contributed nothing to Western civilization suggests as much. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. He falls in the MaddDawgz group of NIU graduates, people we are ashamed of when discussing our university.

Socialism didn't fail, the leaders of Greece did. If it was socialism that was the problem, wouldn't all socialist countries have failed? You could point to China, a thriving communist country (edit, typo) and make the opposite argument that communism works for all. Of course that's ridiculous, but no more ridiculous than what Kevin has suggested.

(05-05-2010 02:39 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Klake.. my point was many other countries are failing and have failed throughout history. America is struggling right now too. His pointing at socialism as the cause of the problems, and not a terribly run government is ridiculous. Any form of government will fail when run poorly. I was pointing out there are plenty of successful socialist countries.

If you are going to make a pathetically simple argument that because one or two socialist countries are failing, socialism doesn't work, is no different than pointing out a capitalist country that failed and saying capitalism doesn't work. It's stupid. Kevin is not bright and his argument that Sweden & Norway are not good places to live or that Sweden has contributed nothing to Western civilization suggests as much. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. He falls in the MaddDawgz group of NIU graduates, people we are ashamed of when discussing our university.

Socialism didn't fail, the leaders of Greece did. If it was socialism that was the problem, wouldn't all socialist countries have failed? You could point to China, a thriving communist country (edit, typo) and make the opposite argument that communism works for all. Of course that's ridiculous, but no more ridiculous than what Kevin has suggested.

Listen ass clown! The leaders of Greece for 24 out of the past 30 years have been socialists and their socialist policies have failed!

Next subject, here are some interesting facts about your paradise on earth Sweden. These figures come from the Center for Freedom and Prosperity, concepts that you do not believe in.

Taxes in Sweden consume more than 50 percent of GDP. The aggregate tax burden rose by about 150 percent between 1950 and 1980, but has since that time remained relatively stable.

The top marginal income tax rate is about 57 percent. While punitive, the top rate used to be nearly 90 percent in the late 1970s. While the long-term trend is positive, the short-term trend is unfavorable. The top tax rate had fallen to 51 percent immediately after the 1991 reform.

Payroll taxes are a significant burden, totaling nearly 40 percent of income, including a 32.28 percent tax imposed on employers. These taxes finance retirement, sick leave, unemployment, parental leave, and other programs.

Wealth is taxed. Assets are tax-exempt up to SEK 1,500,000 (US$ 205,863)3 per individual. With some variations, the standard tax rate above that level is 1.5 percent.

The value added tax is 25 percent, the maximum rate allowed for European Union nations, but there are preferential rates for several items.

The tax burden in the Swedish economy tripled between 1950 and 1980. In 1970, when taxes were not much higher than they are in America today, Sweden's GDP per capita ranked fifth in the world4. Since taxes passed 50 percent of GDP the country's overall prosperity has dwindled, and the downturn has been most dramatic in measures of the standard of living. In 1970 Sweden ranked third in OECD for individual consumption, 39 percent above OECD average. By 1995, Sweden barely beat the OECD average, ranking 14th with an individual consumption 1.4 percent above OECD average, and has been stagnant since that time.

Sweden is a slow-growth economy. After rising rapidly after World War II, economic performance stagnated once the burden of government reached high levels in the 1970s and 1980s. Since that time, inflation-adjusted growth has averaged less than 3 percent per year.

Unemployment is now a significant problem in Sweden. The official jobless rate is about 8 percent, but independent estimates show the rate is closer to 20 percent.

High taxes and excessive regulations have encouraged many large corporations to leave the country. Many individuals also are escaping the Swedish tax system, ranging from high-net worth entrepreneurs to new college graduates. This combination of capital flight and brain drain does not bode well for the future.

Even the Swedish tax authority tries to avoid Swedish taxes. As noted by the Wall Street Journal, "When it comes to paying taxes itself, the Swedish Tax Authority, responsible for collecting some of the highest in the world, would just as soon keep them as low as possible. It's saving a bundle on the production of slick TV spots that encourage Swedes to file online by producing them in the neighboring free-market, low-tax haven of Estonia. ...Spokesman Björn Tharnstrom told us, "We decided to do it in Tallinn because the costs are lower. One of those costs is taxes, of course."

Now, why don't you name some of those great technical innovations to come out of Sweden or a major contribution to western civilization? Name them!

Lastly, from my overall observations of your posts you seem to be a welfare recipient and if an alumni, a complete disgrace to NIU and a positive work ethnic. You should go to the University of Toledo board where you would fit right in drooling and coloring pictures with crayons.

Kevin.. Yes, their socialist policies have failed. That doesn't mean it's socialism that failed, the people in the Greek govt. failed, it doesn't mean it was the system that was the problem. I've never suggested they aren't a socialist country or that they haven't failed. You make MaddDawgz look intelligent.

Sweden contributions from a 5 second internet check:
http://www.sverigeturism.se/smorgasbord/...nventions/
* Tetra Pak
* The Separator and the Milking Machine
* The Ball Bearing
* The Propeller
* The Zipper
* The Safety Match
* Dynamite
* The Turbo Engine for Cars
* Innovations in Telecommunications
* The Adjustable Spanner

A tad more recent:
* Losec, an ulcer medicine, was the world's best-selling drug in the 1990s and was developed by AstraZeneca.

* Håkan Lans (born 1947) is recognised as one of Sweden’s most outstanding inventors. Among his inventions is the digitizer, the predecessor of the computer mouse. He is also credited with the further development of the satellite-guided Global Positioning System (GPS) into the Automatic Identification System (AIS). Lans’s system has become world standard for shipping and civil aviation. He is also famous for a patent regarding computer graphics.

The world standard for aviation.. is that good enough for you Kevin?
Perhaps the first pacemaker does it for you?

* In 1958, Rune Elmqvist developed a small battery-powered pacemaker that can be inserted under the skin of a heart patient.[citation needed] It produces electrical impulses that help the heart muscle work normally. In the same year, Åke Senning at the Karolinska Hospital in Stockholm carried out the world’s first pacemaker operation.

Heart Surgery not impressive enough? How about Brain surgery...

* In 1968, Lars Leksell (1907-86) invented the gamma knife for brain surgery. The ‘knife’ uses concentrated gamma radiation on the tumour or malformation. The method is bloodless and patients can often leave hospital on the day of the operation. The transmission of high voltage direct current, HVDC, is a method developed at ASEA (now ABB) under Uno Lamm(1904–89). ABB remains one of the leading makers of HVDC technology, now also used for terrain cable.[2]

Go back to your bomb shelter Kevin you jingoistic jack ass. Their jobless rate is no different than ours. If that's your example of their system not working, then clearly our capitalist system is failing too. A poorly run government of any kind will fail. Just as a well run govt. will succeed, regardless of their method.

A welfare recipient??? and here I thought you were above personal attacks Kevin... what happened? I am employed, have never been on welfare, and surprisingly even with my terribly poor work ethic, I even have an MBA from a much better school than NIU.

For someone with such a strong work ethic as yourself, I'd have thought you could do at least a little research on Sweden yourself and actually have a clue what you are talking about.

(05-05-2010 04:32 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Kevin.. Yes, their socialist policies have failed. That doesn't mean it's socialism that failed, the people in the Greek govt. failed, it doesn't mean it was the system that was the problem. I've never suggested they aren't a socialist country or that they haven't failed. You make MaddDawgz look intelligent.

Sweden contributions from a 5 second internet check:
http://www.sverigeturism.se/smorgasbord/...nventions/
* Tetra Pak
* The Separator and the Milking Machine
* The Ball Bearing
* The Propeller
* The Zipper
* The Safety Match
* Dynamite
* The Turbo Engine for Cars
* Innovations in Telecommunications
* The Adjustable Spanner

A tad more recent:
* Losec, an ulcer medicine, was the world's best-selling drug in the 1990s and was developed by AstraZeneca.

* Håkan Lans (born 1947) is recognised as one of Sweden’s most outstanding inventors. Among his inventions is the digitizer, the predecessor of the computer mouse. He is also credited with the further development of the satellite-guided Global Positioning System (GPS) into the Automatic Identification System (AIS). Lans’s system has become world standard for shipping and civil aviation. He is also famous for a patent regarding computer graphics.

The world standard for aviation.. is that good enough for you Kevin?
Perhaps the first pacemaker does it for you?

* In 1958, Rune Elmqvist developed a small battery-powered pacemaker that can be inserted under the skin of a heart patient.[citation needed] It produces electrical impulses that help the heart muscle work normally. In the same year, Åke Senning at the Karolinska Hospital in Stockholm carried out the world’s first pacemaker operation.

Heart Surgery not impressive enough? How about Brain surgery...

* In 1968, Lars Leksell (1907-86) invented the gamma knife for brain surgery. The ‘knife’ uses concentrated gamma radiation on the tumour or malformation. The method is bloodless and patients can often leave hospital on the day of the operation. The transmission of high voltage direct current, HVDC, is a method developed at ASEA (now ABB) under Uno Lamm(1904–89). ABB remains one of the leading makers of HVDC technology, now also used for terrain cable.[2]

Go back to your bomb shelter Kevin you jingoistic jack ***. Their jobless rate is no different than ours. If that's your example of their system not working, then clearly our capitalist system is failing too. A poorly run government of any kind will fail. Just as a well run govt. will succeed, regardless of their method.

A welfare recipient??? and here I thought you were above personal attacks Kevin... what happened? I am employed, have never been on welfare, and surprisingly even with my terribly poor work ethic, I even have an MBA from a much better school than NIU.

For someone with such a strong work ethic as yourself, I'd have thought you could do at least a little research on Sweden yourself and actually have a clue what you are talking about.

The zipper and the milking machine? I am talking about major innovations like Plato, Aristotle, Galileo, Copernicus, Einstein, Newton, Mendeleev, Faraday.

While you are at it, if Sweden is such a great place, why don't you renounce your US citizenship and immigrate to Sweden?

America is a great place too... there are many great places in the world. I can only live in one at a time. And if you're going to renounce brain surgery, the pacemaker, GPS, the ball bearing and dynamite as non-major innovations I can't help you.

(05-05-2010 05:50 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  America is a great place too... there are many great places in the world. I can only live in one at a time. And if you're going to renounce brain surgery, the pacemaker, GPS, the ball bearing and dynamite as non-major innovations I can't help you.

Mr. genius, see my response below:

Sweden did not invent brain surgery, see link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Cushing

Sweden did not invent the pacemaker, see link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacemaker

Sweden did not invent GPS, see link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System

Sweden did not invent the ball bearing, see link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearing_(me...l)#History

Please learn basic research techniques. A 100 level NIU course (also studied in high school). Also, if you would prefer to stay in America, I guess that Sweden is not such a great place.

They invented things that are used in those fields.. if you would have read my first post you'd see that... but I wouldn't expect that much from you.

(05-05-2010 07:26 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  They invented things that are used in those fields.. if you would have read my first post you'd see that... but I wouldn't expect that much from you.

It just proves my point. No major contributions to western civilization.

(05-05-2010 04:20 PM)Kevin S Wrote:  

(05-05-2010 02:39 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Klake.. my point was many other countries are failing and have failed throughout history. America is struggling right now too. His pointing at socialism as the cause of the problems, and not a terribly run government is ridiculous. Any form of government will fail when run poorly. I was pointing out there are plenty of successful socialist countries.

If you are going to make a pathetically simple argument that because one or two socialist countries are failing, socialism doesn't work, is no different than pointing out a capitalist country that failed and saying capitalism doesn't work. It's stupid. Kevin is not bright and his argument that Sweden & Norway are not good places to live or that Sweden has contributed nothing to Western civilization suggests as much. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. He falls in the MaddDawgz group of NIU graduates, people we are ashamed of when discussing our university.

Socialism didn't fail, the leaders of Greece did. If it was socialism that was the problem, wouldn't all socialist countries have failed? You could point to China, a thriving communist country (edit, typo) and make the opposite argument that communism works for all. Of course that's ridiculous, but no more ridiculous than what Kevin has suggested.

Listen *** clown! The leaders of Greece for 24 out of the past 30 years have been socialists and their socialist policies have failed!

Next subject, here are some interesting facts about your paradise on earth Sweden. These figures come from the Center for Freedom and Prosperity, concepts that you do not believe in.

Taxes in Sweden consume more than 50 percent of GDP. The aggregate tax burden rose by about 150 percent between 1950 and 1980, but has since that time remained relatively stable.

The top marginal income tax rate is about 57 percent. While punitive, the top rate used to be nearly 90 percent in the late 1970s. While the long-term trend is positive, the short-term trend is unfavorable. The top tax rate had fallen to 51 percent immediately after the 1991 reform.

Payroll taxes are a significant burden, totaling nearly 40 percent of income, including a 32.28 percent tax imposed on employers. These taxes finance retirement, sick leave, unemployment, parental leave, and other programs.

Wealth is taxed. Assets are tax-exempt up to SEK 1,500,000 (US$ 205,863)3 per individual. With some variations, the standard tax rate above that level is 1.5 percent.

The value added tax is 25 percent, the maximum rate allowed for European Union nations, but there are preferential rates for several items.

The tax burden in the Swedish economy tripled between 1950 and 1980. In 1970, when taxes were not much higher than they are in America today, Sweden's GDP per capita ranked fifth in the world4. Since taxes passed 50 percent of GDP the country's overall prosperity has dwindled, and the downturn has been most dramatic in measures of the standard of living. In 1970 Sweden ranked third in OECD for individual consumption, 39 percent above OECD average. By 1995, Sweden barely beat the OECD average, ranking 14th with an individual consumption 1.4 percent above OECD average, and has been stagnant since that time.

Sweden is a slow-growth economy. After rising rapidly after World War II, economic performance stagnated once the burden of government reached high levels in the 1970s and 1980s. Since that time, inflation-adjusted growth has averaged less than 3 percent per year.

Unemployment is now a significant problem in Sweden. The official jobless rate is about 8 percent, but independent estimates show the rate is closer to 20 percent.

High taxes and excessive regulations have encouraged many large corporations to leave the country. Many individuals also are escaping the Swedish tax system, ranging from high-net worth entrepreneurs to new college graduates. This combination of capital flight and brain drain does not bode well for the future.

Even the Swedish tax authority tries to avoid Swedish taxes. As noted by the Wall Street Journal, "When it comes to paying taxes itself, the Swedish Tax Authority, responsible for collecting some of the highest in the world, would just as soon keep them as low as possible. It's saving a bundle on the production of slick TV spots that encourage Swedes to file online by producing them in the neighboring free-market, low-tax haven of Estonia. ...Spokesman Björn Tharnstrom told us, "We decided to do it in Tallinn because the costs are lower. One of those costs is taxes, of course."

Now, why don't you name some of those great technical innovations to come out of Sweden or a major contribution to western civilization? Name them!

Lastly, from my overall observations of your posts you seem to be a welfare recipient and if an alumni, a complete disgrace to NIU and a positive work ethnic. You should go to the University of Toledo board where you would fit right in drooling and coloring pictures with crayons.

Center for Freedom and Prosperity? Are you kidding me?
Here is the Wikipedia entry them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_...Prosperity
Now that my laughter has subsied, what does the amount paid in taxes have to do with quality of life?

(05-05-2010 05:32 PM)Kevin S Wrote:  

(05-05-2010 04:32 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Kevin.. Yes, their socialist policies have failed. That doesn't mean it's socialism that failed, the people in the Greek govt. failed, it doesn't mean it was the system that was the problem. I've never suggested they aren't a socialist country or that they haven't failed. You make MaddDawgz look intelligent.

Sweden contributions from a 5 second internet check:
http://www.sverigeturism.se/smorgasbord/...nventions/
* Tetra Pak
* The Separator and the Milking Machine
* The Ball Bearing
* The Propeller
* The Zipper
* The Safety Match
* Dynamite
* The Turbo Engine for Cars
* Innovations in Telecommunications
* The Adjustable Spanner

A tad more recent:
* Losec, an ulcer medicine, was the world's best-selling drug in the 1990s and was developed by AstraZeneca.

* Håkan Lans (born 1947) is recognised as one of Sweden’s most outstanding inventors. Among his inventions is the digitizer, the predecessor of the computer mouse. He is also credited with the further development of the satellite-guided Global Positioning System (GPS) into the Automatic Identification System (AIS). Lans’s system has become world standard for shipping and civil aviation. He is also famous for a patent regarding computer graphics.

The world standard for aviation.. is that good enough for you Kevin?
Perhaps the first pacemaker does it for you?

* In 1958, Rune Elmqvist developed a small battery-powered pacemaker that can be inserted under the skin of a heart patient.[citation needed] It produces electrical impulses that help the heart muscle work normally. In the same year, Åke Senning at the Karolinska Hospital in Stockholm carried out the world’s first pacemaker operation.

Heart Surgery not impressive enough? How about Brain surgery...

* In 1968, Lars Leksell (1907-86) invented the gamma knife for brain surgery. The ‘knife’ uses concentrated gamma radiation on the tumour or malformation. The method is bloodless and patients can often leave hospital on the day of the operation. The transmission of high voltage direct current, HVDC, is a method developed at ASEA (now ABB) under Uno Lamm(1904–89). ABB remains one of the leading makers of HVDC technology, now also used for terrain cable.[2]

Go back to your bomb shelter Kevin you jingoistic jack ***. Their jobless rate is no different than ours. If that's your example of their system not working, then clearly our capitalist system is failing too. A poorly run government of any kind will fail. Just as a well run govt. will succeed, regardless of their method.

A welfare recipient??? and here I thought you were above personal attacks Kevin... what happened? I am employed, have never been on welfare, and surprisingly even with my terribly poor work ethic, I even have an MBA from a much better school than NIU.

For someone with such a strong work ethic as yourself, I'd have thought you could do at least a little research on Sweden yourself and actually have a clue what you are talking about.

The zipper and the milking machine? I am talking about major innovations like Plato, Aristotle, Galileo, Copernicus, Einstein, Newton, Mendeleev, Faraday.

While you are at it, if Sweden is such a great place, why don't you renounce your US citizenship and immigrate to Sweden?

Why exactly are you laughing at zippers and milking machine? Both are hugely important. How many pants do you own that don't have a zipper? How many coats? Milking machine? Tell the people up in Wisconsin it was not an important invention. How much cheaper and more abundant is it for you to get milk and cheese because of this invention? Laugh all you want but they definately impact your everyday life to this very day.

(05-05-2010 09:59 PM)Kevin S Wrote:  

(05-05-2010 07:26 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  They invented things that are used in those fields.. if you would have read my first post you'd see that... but I wouldn't expect that much from you.

It just proves my point. No major contributions to western civilization.

Do blondes count? :rolltide: You are forgetting about Swedish meatballs. :) I was going to say Swedish Fish too but it appears those were actually from Finland originally.

Sweden also has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Some utopia!

But Sweden does create some great hockey players, and hot women. Sweden has pretty women, but ugly Volvos and Ikea furniture.

Norway has the richest citizens per capita in the world. How did Norway get so rich? Off-shore drilling and harvesting timber. Ufdah! Maybe there is something we could learn from the Norwegians.

Keep in mind that these other "successful" westernized nations would consider it a big acheivement if unemployment fell down to 10%. When unemployment in America reaches 10%, we call it a recession.

In these other socialized western nations, it is virtually impossible to go from rags to riches. You are born into your social class, and you can count on dying there too.

Many Americans have gone from the bottom to the top, whether Obama likes it or not.

While you see lots of Americans visiting Europe, you do not see very many immigrating there.

(05-06-2010 11:29 AM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  Many Americans have gone from the bottom to the top, whether Obama likes it or not.

what?