(05-03-2010 11:40 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  I've repeated it numerous times Klake, and linked you to articles discussing it. When the jobs dry up, they stop coming or go home. As has already happened in many places due to the recession. You're unwillingness to accept this fact or read the articles doesn't change the fact that's it is common sense and well known. You stop giving them an incentive to come here. You punish businesses that hire illegal workers. You stop giving them benefits that they have not earned. You create a system where they have to compete on an even playing field, or be taxed at a slightly higher rate if you'd like, say an extra 1 or 2% for 5 years.

You stop the war on drugs which also costs billions of dollars, and is the driving force behind most of Mexico's awful drug wars that are spilling into the US. This would cut down on crime in the US and Mexico, making Mexico a better place to live and the US at the same time. Not only do we stop wasting billions of dollars on both illegal immigration and the drug war, but can put the resources to better use.

You use that tax money from the immigrant tax, along with the billions saved on building a border system that is stronger, and focus on criminals coming over. Separating families and those who are coming here for good, from those who are coming here for criminal purposes.

Bork... I've said it numerous times, you don't allow them to use our services if they don't pay taxes.

If we can dry up 15 million jobs, why can't we close our border. How about having military bases on the border and our service men can train on the border so when they get deployed, they will be well trained. While training, they can also stop all invading illegal immigrants. When the drug dealers try and bring stuff over, our military can engage.

(05-03-2010 11:40 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Bork... I've said it numerous times, you don't allow them to use our services if they don't pay taxes.

Tell me how you are going to do that. They can't stay here and not use services. They drink the city's water. They drive on our common streets, etc.

For instance, hospitals are now not going to treat someone who comes in, if they don't have a way to pay, if they are illegal? You are proposing that we check citizen status at the door of the emergency room?

(05-03-2010 12:03 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(05-03-2010 11:40 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Bork... I've said it numerous times, you don't allow them to use our services if they don't pay taxes.

Tell me how you are going to do that. They can't stay here and not use services. They drink the city's water. They drive on our common streets, etc.

For instance, hospitals are now not going to treat someone who comes in, if they don't have a way to pay, if they are illegal? You are proposing that we check citizen status at the door of the emergency room?

Hey that is profiling!!!!!

(05-03-2010 12:02 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=vie...2#_ftnref9

From said report:

"Since additional immigration is likely to affect Social Security’s finances modestly, although favorably, the impact of immigration on Social Security should not be a significant consideration in setting either immigration or Social Security policy."

And, this is from a report generated by a liberal think tank. I guess I'm missing the point of your post. This report says immigration helps ss barely a tick in the up direction. Even if I accept that, it is meaningless, since the uptick is so minimal.

walls will be an ineffective means of "sealing the border". should we be building walls on the canadian border. because people will always be able to find their way in if they really really want to. the only way to discourage illegal immigration is to hold employers accountable. thats why they come here....for the jobs. cut off the job flow...its that simple. if you start putting our military on the borders and having it turn into a quasi war zone, you are just wasting our military's resources IMO.

(05-03-2010 08:13 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Klake, you and I both know full well that's not what I believe at all. You just repeating lies in every single thread doesn't make them true. I've said on here numerous times that immigrants should have to pay taxes to enjoy any of the benefits paid for by tax payers. As I've said businesses should be fined heavily for hiring illegal immigrants to avoid paying taxes. You know damn well that I have a problem with the free ride they've been getting. The fact is though, this ridiculous law in Arizona does nothing to help that problem.

Just as I believe they should be punished like anyone else if they break the law for identity theft. It's unbelievable these leaps in logic you make, and accusations without any fact to back them up. Of course I have a problem with identity theft, but plenty of people that aren't illegal immigrants are stealing identities too. Just as I think those people should be punished, I think immigrants should be.

It's just ridiculous the things you say Klake. I guess because you accept racial profiling you believe all black people in the South Side of Chicago should be allowed to be pulled over because they are more likely to be in a gang, and therefore potentially dealing drugs. That nonsense is no different than the bull**** you accused me of.

What Kevin said was a Reach, a pathetic one at that about some 30 year old search for Nazi's, that has absolutely nothing to do with this new law. It's a joke.
You can support the new law if you want, we know it won't work, and it's just going to cause problems and the governor did it solely to buy votes in an election year, but fine, support it. To imply that because the justice department was trying to find Nazi's 30 years ago makes liberals hypocritical is a joke though. He gave no background of the story, no links, no list of liberals who supported this, just one guy's quote about an issue in 1979 that has no relevance to this topic.

Kevin is just trying to stir the pot and you bought it Klake.

First and Foremost, I am not stirring the pot, I took a quote from Vladas Zajanckauskas an alleged Nazi war criminal about his treatment.
Huskie Fan 84 here are some references:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article...orted.html

Vladas Zajanckauskas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_S...f_Justice)

Office of Special Investigations, established in 1979 to hunt down Nazi war criminals, still operating today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efraim_Zuroff

Chief Nazi hunter. See section about Operation Last Chance and what nations it operates in. Possible ethnic profiling?

Ryan, Allan A., Jr. Quiet Neighbors: Prosecuting Nazi War Criminals in America. New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1984. 386 pages.

When Congresswoman Elizabeth Holtzman took over the chair of the Immigration subcommittee in January 1979, she was also an emerging power on the full Judiciary committee. Attorney General Griffin Bell had to toss her a bone, so later that year the jurisdiction over Nazi prosecutions was passed from the INS to the newly-formed Office of Special Investigations.
The first three chapters offer some background, from the Displaced Persons Act of 1948 through the 30 years of INS inaction, on to the Moscow Agreement of 1980 that gave OSI access to documents and witnesses. The next several chapters describe how the Office of Special Investigations was formed and how it developed methodologies to profile and track down Nazi war criminals. One chapter describes the Office’s profiles and their use in searching through immigration records to locate fugitives. Other chapters treat case histories. OSI director Ryan's major success story is John Demjanjuk, who was finally deported in 1986. (As this is being written in late 1992, this case has been reopened. Former OSI prosecutor George Parker has testified that his superiors weren't interested in evidence of possible mistaken identity, and he subsequently quit the agency in disgust.) There is also a chapter on Klaus Barbie. The dust jacket describes Ryan's report on Barbie's connections to U.S. intelligence as one "which received international acclaim for its thoroughness and honesty."

book review describing Office of Special Investigations

http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/s...ily57.html

Attorney General Eric Holder on racial profiling.

Lastly and for the record I do believe in profiling because it works. Vladas Zajanckauskas found out it works the hard way! He got busted.

(05-03-2010 08:25 AM)klake87 Wrote:  If you don't close the border, this problem will continue to grow. Reagan gave amnesty to 2 million and that was supposed to be the last time. Now we are up to 15 million illegal immigrants and after granting amnesty to all of them, more will come over the border because we are not protecting our borders. Then is another 5 years we will have to have amnesty again. When does it stop. Close the borders, shut off more illegals coming over (and drugs) then come talk to me. No politicians(REPUBLICANS or Democrats) want to do this so they should all be fired!!!

Illegals wouldn't come here if cheap ass scumbag business and fortune 500 companies wouldn't hire them. They come here because they know that the vast majority of business owners and corporations in the US have the morals of a whore. Jail the owner of any company that hires an illegal immigrant and there will be no more illegals coming here. That's the law in Japan and Switzerland why shouldn't it be here.

(05-03-2010 10:47 AM)klake87 Wrote:  

(05-03-2010 10:39 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  If you are still going to carry on with this "my solution is to do nothing" nonsense then I won't waste my time. I've repeatedly told you how I would handle the problem, you refuse to read it or acknowledge it and instead just ramble on with the same things over and over with no legitimate solution. The wall is a joke.

How do you propose to stop future illegal immigrants from coming. We gave amnesty to 2 million in the 80s. Possibly 12+ million now. More will come, how do we stop this inflow.

Throw the employers who hire them in Jail for 1 year for each illegal they hire. If they can't get jobs they won't stay here and won't come here.

(05-03-2010 11:40 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  I've repeated it numerous times Klake, and linked you to articles discussing it. When the jobs dry up, they stop coming or go home. As has already happened in many places due to the recession. You're unwillingness to accept this fact or read the articles doesn't change the fact that's it is common sense and well known. You stop giving them an incentive to come here. You punish businesses that hire illegal workers. You stop giving them benefits that they have not earned. You create a system where they have to compete on an even playing field, or be taxed at a slightly higher rate if you'd like, say an extra 1 or 2% for 5 years.

You stop the war on drugs which also costs billions of dollars, and is the driving force behind most of Mexico's awful drug wars that are spilling into the US. This would cut down on crime in the US and Mexico, making Mexico a better place to live and the US at the same time. Not only do we stop wasting billions of dollars on both illegal immigration and the drug war, but can put the resources to better use.

You use that tax money from the immigrant tax, along with the billions saved on building a border system that is stronger, and focus on criminals coming over. Separating families and those who are coming here for good, from those who are coming here for criminal purposes.

Bork... I've said it numerous times, you don't allow them to use our services if they don't pay taxes.

Getting rid of our whole welfare state mentality will not only slow down illegal immigration of deadbeats, but it will also cause the numbers of home grown deadbeats to decrease as well. But, like the wall, it will not stop all illegal immigration by itself, so it must be a stupid idea.

Ending the war on drugs would go a long way toward getting rid of the nanny state mentality, and all the side effects of prohibition. It could reduce the demand for imported drugs. But, like the wall, it will not stop illegal immigration all by itself, so it is a stupid idea.

Penalizing businesses for hiring illegals might reduce illegal workers, but I think it is a little backward for businesses to be doing background checks, looking for immigration status. Shouldn't the government take responsibility for that. With all the recent government intrusions into the private sector, you now want the private sector to do government work? If you are looking for work, it is going to take alot longer to get hired, as your citizenship status will have to be thoroughly checked. There is lots of fraud, and the business has to be absolutely certain of your citizenship. Of course, like the wall, that will not stop all illegal immigration all by itself, so it is a stupid idea anyway.

What an argument to let them have services, if they pay taxes. At that wage level, the illegals will actually get a tax credit. So they will will be filling the jails, crowding the schools, and overflowing the ER, and ensure a socialist government led by the Democrats with their votes, but getting paid to do so. Only the most liberal of morons could have this as a solution.

They already get these services and fill up the jails and ER's. That's why I suggested an immigrant tax *******.